Gary, this build is looking really beautiful so far. Your patience and skill is unmatchable ! That foil, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole for fear of messing it up and despite your hiccups you make it look easy
James.
World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
B-29 Superfortress Jumbo King of the Show
lespauljames
Joined: January 06, 2007
KitMaker: 3,661 posts
AeroScale: 369 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 12:27 AM UTC
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 01:38 AM UTC
James,
Thank you for the compliment. There is nothing to mess up with foil...except pieces of foil. If I wanted, I could strip off all of this foil and rattlecan-silver the whole thing in a couple of days.
The only thing you really need to do is pull off a panel that looks wrong to you and replace it. Irritating,yes. Kit ruining, definitely not.
Best Wishes,
Gaz
Thank you for the compliment. There is nothing to mess up with foil...except pieces of foil. If I wanted, I could strip off all of this foil and rattlecan-silver the whole thing in a couple of days.
The only thing you really need to do is pull off a panel that looks wrong to you and replace it. Irritating,yes. Kit ruining, definitely not.
Best Wishes,
Gaz
Joel_W
Associate Editor
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 05:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
James,
Thank you for the compliment. There is nothing to mess up with foil...except pieces of foil. If I wanted, I could strip off all of this foil and rattlecan-silver the whole thing in a couple of days.
The only thing you really need to do is pull off a panel that looks wrong to you and replace it. Irritating,yes. Kit ruining, definitely not.
Best Wishes,
Gaz
Gary,
With my luck, I'd find a way to ruin the model. Of that I have no doubts.
Joel
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 23, 2016 - 06:50 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Gary,
With my luck, I'd find a way to ruin the model. Of that I have no doubts.
Joel
Joel,
Nonsense!
Well, you could drop it. Get frustrated and throw it against a solid surface. But there is nothing in the glue, foil, or process that can damage the styrene or clear parts.
Best wishes,
Gaz
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 24, 2016 - 03:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Gary,
With my luck, I'd find a way to ruin the model. Of that I have no doubts.
Joel
Joel,
Nonsense!
Well, you could drop it. Get frustrated and throw it against a solid surface. But there is nothing in the glue, foil, or process that can damage the styrene or clear parts.
Best wishes,
Gaz
Gary,
Ok, I'll confess. Over a long modeling life time, I've shall we say, sent more then my fair share of never to be finished models to the county landfill. Some have had the pleasure of having me release my frustration in some rather creative ways, while others just got it the old fashion way. Thankfully, these days I have a rather high completion rate, and none in the last few years have taken that one way trip.
Joel
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 30, 2016 - 09:00 AM UTC
Hi Everyone,
Oddly enough this is going to be an incomplete update. I spent a large part of the week and the weekend working on the canopy. When I crossed the canopy finish line I discovered I wasn't satisfied with the result.
This is my first foil model with a substantially framed Canopy. Single engine planes with bubble-tops are more user friendly.
After 5-6 hours of relative frustration, an idea started to form in my head. Since the foil was too fragile and my own knife-work was none too deft but not likely to change, the only thing I could change would be the framing itself. I could paint it...but that should be my last resort.
What else could I do?
Then I realized a possible solution may lay in my shed...
Hopefully fixing this framing problem won't take forever. Then again...I still have to do the nose glazing too.
Thanks for looking!
Gaz
Oddly enough this is going to be an incomplete update. I spent a large part of the week and the weekend working on the canopy. When I crossed the canopy finish line I discovered I wasn't satisfied with the result.
This is my first foil model with a substantially framed Canopy. Single engine planes with bubble-tops are more user friendly.
After 5-6 hours of relative frustration, an idea started to form in my head. Since the foil was too fragile and my own knife-work was none too deft but not likely to change, the only thing I could change would be the framing itself. I could paint it...but that should be my last resort.
What else could I do?
Then I realized a possible solution may lay in my shed...
Hopefully fixing this framing problem won't take forever. Then again...I still have to do the nose glazing too.
Thanks for looking!
Gaz
Redhand
#522
Joined: January 20, 2013
KitMaker: 1,460 posts
AeroScale: 1,443 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 30, 2016 - 03:43 PM UTC
Good luck. You might also want to consider the Squadron vacuform canopy for the 29, which has the right shape.
Peterpools
Joined: June 08, 2013
KitMaker: 197 posts
AeroScale: 193 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 30, 2016 - 06:22 PM UTC
Gary
WOW, what a plan and I have my fingers crossed and surely with your determination and engineering skills, my money is riding on you!
Always seems to be something that pops ups and alters the course.
Keep 'em coming
Peter
WOW, what a plan and I have my fingers crossed and surely with your determination and engineering skills, my money is riding on you!
Always seems to be something that pops ups and alters the course.
Keep 'em coming
Peter
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 30, 2016 - 08:59 PM UTC
Gary,
Your metal work for the greenhouse glass is amazing. But I'm in the Brian camp with using a Squadron vacuum-form one, or even the kit one, as it looks pretty good in the picture. Then Alcad for the framing.
I'm assuming that the metal framing will be the canopy and that you'll be adding the glass from either clear sheet or a similar product to Micro Krystal Kleer.
Joel
Your metal work for the greenhouse glass is amazing. But I'm in the Brian camp with using a Squadron vacuum-form one, or even the kit one, as it looks pretty good in the picture. Then Alcad for the framing.
I'm assuming that the metal framing will be the canopy and that you'll be adding the glass from either clear sheet or a similar product to Micro Krystal Kleer.
Joel
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Saturday, July 30, 2016 - 11:11 PM UTC
Guys,
Thanks for the encouragement! I figured a while ago that the area would present difficulties.
I have the vac-form canopy, but it seems as problematic to fit as the original but in different ways. Added to that it has very thin edges with little for the PVA to grip. And trimming it down to fit seems to take forever. But having dealt with vac-form, I know that one knife slip, one overly trimmed piece turns it into wasted effort...
I think I'll take some time off from it for a few days.
Gaz
Thanks for the encouragement! I figured a while ago that the area would present difficulties.
I have the vac-form canopy, but it seems as problematic to fit as the original but in different ways. Added to that it has very thin edges with little for the PVA to grip. And trimming it down to fit seems to take forever. But having dealt with vac-form, I know that one knife slip, one overly trimmed piece turns it into wasted effort...
I think I'll take some time off from it for a few days.
Gaz
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 01:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Guys,
Thanks for the encouragement! I figured a while ago that the area would present difficulties.
I have the vac-form canopy, but it seems as problematic to fit as the original but in different ways. Added to that it has very thin edges with little for the PVA to grip. And trimming it down to fit seems to take forever. But having dealt with vac-form, I know that one knife slip, one overly trimmed piece turns it into wasted effort...
I think I'll take some time off from it for a few days.
Gaz
Gary,
Why not try to get a perfect fit on the kit canopy, and use the vac one as a fall back plan?
Joel
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 01:33 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Gary,
Why not try to get a perfect fit on the kit canopy, and use the vac one as a fall back plan?
Joel
Joel,
I got a nice shine on the original glazing and a good fit. The nose was almost perfectly clean, aerodynamically. In the process, parts of it became very thin. So, I started preparing the vac-form canopy in the midst of my post-failed-framing-pity-party though I had no real plan at the time.
It is conceivable that I'll still use the original. Although I won't rule out the vac-form. One thing I must rule out is my unsteady hands. So, my mind jumped to fabbing the framing. Crazy, I know.
Right now I'm just gonna relax a bit.
Gaz
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 06:34 PM UTC
Gary,
We sure do think alike. I often work for days, then get a little mini burnout, and take a few days off to get my Mojo flowing again.
At least you had a A & B plan. I usually just barrel straight in, and when the Sxxt hits the fan, I scramble for an alternate.
Joel
We sure do think alike. I often work for days, then get a little mini burnout, and take a few days off to get my Mojo flowing again.
At least you had a A & B plan. I usually just barrel straight in, and when the Sxxt hits the fan, I scramble for an alternate.
Joel
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 11:26 PM UTC
Joel,
I have two other models going for when I want something different. I've found the value in having a modelling alternative.
Once I have a plan, I'll start back on the Boeing. The gap in my current plan is finding a a material to use for all of the gaskets in the greenhouse glazing. My unsteady hands mean I can't trust myself to paint them in. I need something that will stick to aluminum, be easily shapable while still wet, sandable when dry without too much pressure. The closest candidate I can think of so far might be milliput. Will Bondo fit those criteria? I fear milliput may be too brittle for the small areas concerned.
This is fine detail in the extreme for me. Perhaps too fine for my abilities.
Best wishes,
Gaz
I have two other models going for when I want something different. I've found the value in having a modelling alternative.
Once I have a plan, I'll start back on the Boeing. The gap in my current plan is finding a a material to use for all of the gaskets in the greenhouse glazing. My unsteady hands mean I can't trust myself to paint them in. I need something that will stick to aluminum, be easily shapable while still wet, sandable when dry without too much pressure. The closest candidate I can think of so far might be milliput. Will Bondo fit those criteria? I fear milliput may be too brittle for the small areas concerned.
This is fine detail in the extreme for me. Perhaps too fine for my abilities.
Best wishes,
Gaz
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Sunday, July 31, 2016 - 11:43 PM UTC
Gary,
I've tried over and over again to have two builds going at the same time, so that when I hit a brick wall, I can just work on something else for a while. But it just doesn't work for me. On the other hand my brother has absolutely no problems working on multi builds and eventually finishing both of them, so it can't be a inherited passed on gene..
I'm not sure I understand what type of gasket you're referring to. Are you calling the spacing between the Aluminum frame and the glass the area that needs filling to look like a gasket? If so, then Bondo would be just as bad as Milliput. You could try to mask all the edges so that the Bondo doesn't end up where you don't want it. It does dry rock hard is very sandable, and certainly paintable.
In this case I would mask off the inside edge only, then using Vallejo White Acrylic putty fill in that gap. Give it 5-10 seconds, then with a damp Q-tip wipe it off at a 45 degree angle. It will shrink as it dries, but that could be exactly the look you're after. You can do multiple coats till the exact thickness you want is achieved.
Joel
I've tried over and over again to have two builds going at the same time, so that when I hit a brick wall, I can just work on something else for a while. But it just doesn't work for me. On the other hand my brother has absolutely no problems working on multi builds and eventually finishing both of them, so it can't be a inherited passed on gene.
.I'm not sure I understand what type of gasket you're referring to. Are you calling the spacing between the Aluminum frame and the glass the area that needs filling to look like a gasket? If so, then Bondo would be just as bad as Milliput. You could try to mask all the edges so that the Bondo doesn't end up where you don't want it. It does dry rock hard is very sandable, and certainly paintable.
In this case I would mask off the inside edge only, then using Vallejo White Acrylic putty fill in that gap. Give it 5-10 seconds, then with a damp Q-tip wipe it off at a 45 degree angle. It will shrink as it dries, but that could be exactly the look you're after. You can do multiple coats till the exact thickness you want is achieved.
Joel
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 11:04 AM UTC
Hi Joel,
We can blame this inspiration on Brian. LOL...just kidding Brian. Inspiration is a good thing.
Note this picture Brian uploaded early in the thread:
Each gasket has a unique shape. I'll try your idea when I get there. Though I fear smudging the clear parts.
Man, do I fear smudging the clear parts!
I kinda like being pushed to excel. But failure...
It hurts.
Gaz
We can blame this inspiration on Brian. LOL...just kidding Brian. Inspiration is a good thing.
Note this picture Brian uploaded early in the thread:
Each gasket has a unique shape. I'll try your idea when I get there. Though I fear smudging the clear parts.
Man, do I fear smudging the clear parts!
I kinda like being pushed to excel. But failure...
It hurts.
Gaz
SteveAndrews
Joined: August 16, 2010
KitMaker: 693 posts
AeroScale: 551 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 03:44 PM UTC
Hi Gaz
Wow and more wow. Your work with the foil and perseverance at getting it right are an inspiration. If only my little project hadn't caused me so many trials so far, I might just be tempted to give it a try.
By the way, its really great to see different techniques being tried. I know using foil is not new but with all the hype and advertising around new NMF paints right now, you've got respect a guy who goes his own way.
More power to you!
Steve
Wow and more wow. Your work with the foil and perseverance at getting it right are an inspiration. If only my little project hadn't caused me so many trials so far, I might just be tempted to give it a try.
By the way, its really great to see different techniques being tried. I know using foil is not new but with all the hype and advertising around new NMF paints right now, you've got respect a guy who goes his own way.
More power to you!
Steve
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 10:37 PM UTC
Gary,
I totally forgot about this picture. One can clearly see the step down to plexi window panels. I've never attempt those gaskets with Bondo, Milliput, or Squadron green/white putty. Way to risky.
What I'd do if I had to duplicate the gaskets, which most likely I'd just skip, is to make Tamiya tape masks which doesn't look to difficult, Then apply and smear some Vallejo white Acrylic putty and smooth with a damp finger. let dry for a few min. and pull off the tape. No sanding required.
Joel
I totally forgot about this picture. One can clearly see the step down to plexi window panels. I've never attempt those gaskets with Bondo, Milliput, or Squadron green/white putty. Way to risky.
What I'd do if I had to duplicate the gaskets, which most likely I'd just skip, is to make Tamiya tape masks which doesn't look to difficult, Then apply and smear some Vallejo white Acrylic putty and smooth with a damp finger. let dry for a few min. and pull off the tape. No sanding required.
Joel
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 11:12 PM UTC
Hi Steve,
Glad to hear from you. Thank you vey much for the encouragement.
This will most likely be my last big project for a while. Though there is some value in resuscitating an out of date kit I think I'd have been long done by now if I hadn't spent so much time on other things. Still, I Have to think that theere is some value in the ...what do you call them, SOE's.
I respect your perserverance, too. It kinda stinks when the model you want inthe scale you want is made by some company that has never made a complete effort at turning out a first rate kit.
Regarding the latest wAve of metallic paints, I can't argue that their finish isn't greater than that of the past. And that some very skilled modellers aren't making beautiful models with them. But I know I would never be satisfied with them completely.
Best wishes,
Gaz
Glad to hear from you. Thank you vey much for the encouragement.
This will most likely be my last big project for a while. Though there is some value in resuscitating an out of date kit I think I'd have been long done by now if I hadn't spent so much time on other things. Still, I Have to think that theere is some value in the ...what do you call them, SOE's.
I respect your perserverance, too. It kinda stinks when the model you want inthe scale you want is made by some company that has never made a complete effort at turning out a first rate kit.
Regarding the latest wAve of metallic paints, I can't argue that their finish isn't greater than that of the past. And that some very skilled modellers aren't making beautiful models with them. But I know I would never be satisfied with them completely.
Best wishes,
Gaz
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Monday, August 01, 2016 - 11:13 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Gary,
I totally forgot about this picture. One can clearly see the step down to plexi window panels. I've never attempt those gaskets with Bondo, Milliput, or Squadron green/white putty. Way to risky.
What I'd do if I had to duplicate the gaskets, which most likely I'd just skip, is to make Tamiya tape masks which doesn't look to difficult, Then apply and smear some Vallejo white Acrylic putty and smooth with a damp finger. let dry for a few min. and pull off the tape. No sanding required.
Joel
Joel,
Excelent idea! Tape was creeping into my mind about it yesterday, but I couldn't get past that point. I think I feel some mojo creeping back.
Thanks!
Gaz
Peterpools
Joined: June 08, 2013
KitMaker: 197 posts
AeroScale: 193 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 01:01 AM UTC
Hi Gary
OMG - what a obstacle to overcome but my money is riding on you. I keep looking at the photo Brian posted and seeing the step. I would some how attach the 'glass' to the underside of the frame. Then fill in the step with super thin Milliput worms and with a very fine spatula and water, work the Milliput into the gasket shape. Sounds like a long and tedious procedure but I'm sure it will work and yield the proper 3D effect.
I guess it's no secret I'm a Alclad & AK NMF guy.
Knowing your skills with foil, the finish will be superb.
Keep 'em coming
Peter
OMG - what a obstacle to overcome but my money is riding on you. I keep looking at the photo Brian posted and seeing the step. I would some how attach the 'glass' to the underside of the frame. Then fill in the step with super thin Milliput worms and with a very fine spatula and water, work the Milliput into the gasket shape. Sounds like a long and tedious procedure but I'm sure it will work and yield the proper 3D effect.
I guess it's no secret I'm a Alclad & AK NMF guy.
Knowing your skills with foil, the finish will be superb.
Keep 'em coming
Peter
JPTRR
Managing Editor
#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
AeroScale: 3,175 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 10:01 AM UTC
Just found this today. There's a 2nd B-29 now flying! "Doc."
The B-29 "Doc" flew at Wichita back on July 17!
http://www.b-29doc.com/2016/07/18/video-first-flight-success
The B-29 "Doc" flew at Wichita back on July 17!
http://www.b-29doc.com/2016/07/18/video-first-flight-success
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 11:07 AM UTC
Frederick,
Thank you for that! What a beautiful machine! Severely inspiring for the modeller or B-29 enthusiast.
Gaz
Thank you for that! What a beautiful machine! Severely inspiring for the modeller or B-29 enthusiast.
Gaz
GazzaS
#424
Joined: April 23, 2015
KitMaker: 4,648 posts
AeroScale: 1,938 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 11:11 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Gary
OMG - what a obstacle to overcome but my money is riding on you. I keep looking at the photo Brian posted and seeing the step. I would some how attach the 'glass' to the underside of the frame. Then fill in the step with super thin Milliput worms and with a very fine spatula and water, work the Milliput into the gasket shape. Sounds like a long and tedious procedure but I'm sure it will work and yield the proper 3D effect.
I guess it's no secret I'm a Alclad & AK NMF guy.
Knowing your skills with foil, the finish will be superb.
Keep 'em coming
Peter
Peter,
Thanks for the post. I'm only newly converted to your method of canopy polishing, remember. How do you think the milliput would affect the polished clear plastic?
Gaz
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 02, 2016 - 10:41 PM UTC
Gary,
I've used Milliput a few times, and worked from a worm shape using a wet finger, you can smooth it out, same for Vallejo white putty. I would still mask out the area to keep it from attaching or attacking the canopy.
The big difference from my point of view, is that the Milliput will take hours to cure while the Vallejo acrylic putty will take just 5-10 to completely cure, so you can complete one panel then move on to the next one.
Joel
I've used Milliput a few times, and worked from a worm shape using a wet finger, you can smooth it out, same for Vallejo white putty. I would still mask out the area to keep it from attaching or attacking the canopy.
The big difference from my point of view, is that the Milliput will take hours to cure while the Vallejo acrylic putty will take just 5-10 to completely cure, so you can complete one panel then move on to the next one.
Joel
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