Air Campaigns
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Hosted by Frederick Boucher, Michael Satin
OFFICIAL: What If? Campaign Thread
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 - 04:51 AM UTC
What kit is it? Don't recall seeing a Potez before.
Krowa_
Województwo Gdanskie, Poland
Joined: August 05, 2010
KitMaker: 37 posts
AeroScale: 12 posts
Joined: August 05, 2010
KitMaker: 37 posts
AeroScale: 12 posts
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 - 08:06 AM UTC
Actually it's not Potez, but polish pre-war PZL. This kit is popular mostly in Poland but guess should be available on ebay, too. It was reboxed by different companies, with different decals, but inside it's still the same kit.
in-box is here:
http://www.super-hobby.com/MasterCraft-PZL-Pa37-B-Los-II-p-1-190944.html
there is also 1/48 version from Mirage
http://www.super-hobby.com/MirageaHobby-Los-PZL-37B-bomber-p-1-187496.html
in-box is here:
http://www.super-hobby.com/MasterCraft-PZL-Pa37-B-Los-II-p-1-190944.html
there is also 1/48 version from Mirage
http://www.super-hobby.com/MirageaHobby-Los-PZL-37B-bomber-p-1-187496.html
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 - 08:56 AM UTC
Sorry my mistake, misread the name of the plane earlier.
Am I correct in saying that the kit offers an alternative single rudder as well as the two on the tips?
Looking forward to seeing how this turns out.
Am I correct in saying that the kit offers an alternative single rudder as well as the two on the tips?
Looking forward to seeing how this turns out.
Krowa_
Województwo Gdanskie, Poland
Joined: August 05, 2010
KitMaker: 37 posts
AeroScale: 12 posts
Joined: August 05, 2010
KitMaker: 37 posts
AeroScale: 12 posts
Posted: Friday, January 27, 2012 - 07:57 PM UTC
Yes, you are right. There are 2 rudder options, however some editions of this kit have extra rudder removed, while some others dont.
Jessie_C
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 - 08:45 AM UTC
Window thermoforming 101 class will now come to session.
Having previously created your window forming master:
You will now assemble all the necessary tools. You will require a heat source, master and a holder to hold it steady, 2 pairs of needle nose pliers to hold the acetate, and of course your clear thermoformable acetate.
I could not show the actual thermoforming, because I'm not an octopus. You need two hands to hold the pliers which hold the acetate, a hand to hold the master still, and another two hands to hold the camera and take the pictures. Lacking all but two of those hands, I have to describe the process instead:
Grip the acetate on two sides with the pliers, hold it tightly, and move it gently in a slight circular notion above the heat source until it softens. You should feel no connection between your hands, and it should begin to deform slightly from the tension. Quickly bring it over your master, and plunge it down. You should begin to feel resistance as the acetate cools. Hold the tension for few more seconds so it doesn't spring back and fold up. Et voilą! Your newly thermoformed windows!
Take care not to hold the acetate over the heat source too long, or this will happen:
You can see that the acetate started to scorch and got all murky and bubbly rather than staying clear. This one's for the garbage bag.
After trimming, the window will look like this:
Any questions?
Having previously created your window forming master:
You will now assemble all the necessary tools. You will require a heat source, master and a holder to hold it steady, 2 pairs of needle nose pliers to hold the acetate, and of course your clear thermoformable acetate.
I could not show the actual thermoforming, because I'm not an octopus. You need two hands to hold the pliers which hold the acetate, a hand to hold the master still, and another two hands to hold the camera and take the pictures. Lacking all but two of those hands, I have to describe the process instead:
Grip the acetate on two sides with the pliers, hold it tightly, and move it gently in a slight circular notion above the heat source until it softens. You should feel no connection between your hands, and it should begin to deform slightly from the tension. Quickly bring it over your master, and plunge it down. You should begin to feel resistance as the acetate cools. Hold the tension for few more seconds so it doesn't spring back and fold up. Et voilą! Your newly thermoformed windows!
Take care not to hold the acetate over the heat source too long, or this will happen:
You can see that the acetate started to scorch and got all murky and bubbly rather than staying clear. This one's for the garbage bag.
After trimming, the window will look like this:
Any questions?
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 - 10:24 AM UTC
Good work. Only wish I'd thought of doing somehting similar with my rotodyne. Oh well maybe I'll try it on another project.
I do have one question for the admins. What are the chances of an extension? I really think I'll be pushing it to have her finished by the end of the month.
I do have one question for the admins. What are the chances of an extension? I really think I'll be pushing it to have her finished by the end of the month.
Jessie_C
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 - 01:02 PM UTC
Test fit. It's all hung together by friction. I'm going to need a fair amount of filler around the wing, engine and tailplane joints, and the area under the nose will require some brute force and ignorance to persuade it to fit correctly.
I have to install the windows inside the fuselage shell and then it'll be ready to button up.
I have to install the windows inside the fuselage shell and then it'll be ready to button up.
windysean
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: September 11, 2009
KitMaker: 1,917 posts
AeroScale: 563 posts
Joined: September 11, 2009
KitMaker: 1,917 posts
AeroScale: 563 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 - 03:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
...the area under the nose will require some brute force and ignorance to persuade it to fit correctly.
Thanks so much, Jessie, for the quick lesson in heat-forming small windows, but how does ignorance persuade your parts to fit?
Cheers!
-Sean H.
emroglan
Istanbul, Turkey / Türkēe
Joined: December 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,163 posts
AeroScale: 255 posts
Joined: December 16, 2004
KitMaker: 1,163 posts
AeroScale: 255 posts
Posted: Tuesday, January 31, 2012 - 10:12 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text...the area under the nose will require some brute force and ignorance to persuade it to fit correctly.
Thanks so much, Jessie, for the quick lesson in heat-forming small windows, but how does ignorance persuade your parts to fit?
Cheers!
-Sean H.
I think it persuades you to conform to the nonconformity of the parts... Be the water, flow like water and turn a blind-eye to rebellious kit parts.
Posted: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 05:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Any questions
that's awesome, thanks!
where do you get clear thermoformable acetate?
Posted: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 05:47 AM UTC
Thats really interesting Jessie thanks for sharing. I think I would have burnt myself many times and made a mess of it.
Some great progress guys mine is still at the same stage as previously. Everything has pretty much gone on hold as Ive had several kit reviews for the magazine I write for come in so they have had to have priority over any of my campaigns or normal builds.
That and just competed at my first dressage competition with my horse stressed was an understatement it took weeks of practice and prep for it.
Anyway I *should* be around a bit more and might actually get some progress done (don't hold your breath)
Some great progress guys mine is still at the same stage as previously. Everything has pretty much gone on hold as Ive had several kit reviews for the magazine I write for come in so they have had to have priority over any of my campaigns or normal builds.
That and just competed at my first dressage competition with my horse stressed was an understatement it took weeks of practice and prep for it.
Anyway I *should* be around a bit more and might actually get some progress done (don't hold your breath)
Jessie_C
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 06:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
where do you get clear thermoformable acetate?
I got it at the local hobby shop years ago. Squadron used to sell it as "Clear thermoform", but really any clear styrene sheet will do. It's the same stuff that those impossible to open blister packs are made from.
Jessie_C
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 01, 2012 - 06:51 AM UTC
Quoted Text
...how does ignorance persuade your parts to fit?
I guess that's an RCN thing. We used to say a little brute force and ignorance will make the {whateveritis} fit when we were rigging jackstaffs, RAS gear, strongbacks or other boatswain work. Since everything in the Navy is handraulic and sound powered*, things get twisted, bashed or bent and then the next time we had to use them, we'd end up needing to "persuade" them to work correctly.
*"Put your backs into it! Heave! Heave! Don't just stand around looking ornamental!"
Jessie_C
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 - 07:17 AM UTC
The Traveller has completed its journey!
Now the Commandant of the Air Training Plan has a spiffy airplane to take him from the Head Shed (RCAF Heaedquarters) in Ottawa to wherever he needs to go.
And LAC Shatterproof has a new airplane to polish.
Now the Commandant of the Air Training Plan has a spiffy airplane to take him from the Head Shed (RCAF Heaedquarters) in Ottawa to wherever he needs to go.
And LAC Shatterproof has a new airplane to polish.
mtnflyer
Alberta, Canada
Joined: March 08, 2009
KitMaker: 394 posts
AeroScale: 360 posts
Joined: March 08, 2009
KitMaker: 394 posts
AeroScale: 360 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 - 10:56 AM UTC
WOOOWWEEE! Beauty. Well done!
architect
Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 91 posts
AeroScale: 83 posts
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 91 posts
AeroScale: 83 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 02, 2012 - 11:14 PM UTC
Very sleek looking plane there Jessie. Well done. Here's my beasty zeppelin's, complete basic structure, beast's mouth and all. Hope to finish it by year 2020....in time for "What if campain" No 10.
At least I have my litle Huckebeins for consolation.
At least I have my litle Huckebeins for consolation.
windysean
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: September 11, 2009
KitMaker: 1,917 posts
AeroScale: 563 posts
Joined: September 11, 2009
KitMaker: 1,917 posts
AeroScale: 563 posts
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2012 - 01:32 AM UTC
Architect,
That's an impressive structure. Will you finish a segment of your blimp (and the planes inside) for this campaign? What you've done so far is really good.
thanks for posting!
-Sean.
That's an impressive structure. Will you finish a segment of your blimp (and the planes inside) for this campaign? What you've done so far is really good.
thanks for posting!
-Sean.
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2012 - 02:56 AM UTC
Antonatos wow what I can I say? That looks great, looks very fiddly to do and I really would not have the patience for something like that.
Jessie great work on the traveller nice to see it finished
Jessie great work on the traveller nice to see it finished
oraora
Kuching, Malaysia
Joined: June 19, 2002
KitMaker: 216 posts
AeroScale: 128 posts
Joined: June 19, 2002
KitMaker: 216 posts
AeroScale: 128 posts
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2012 - 06:23 AM UTC
Beautiful build, Jessica. I like the colour scheme.
Great progress, Antonatos. Your build looks huge..
Great progress, Antonatos. Your build looks huge..
architect
Attica, Greece / Ελλάδα
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 91 posts
AeroScale: 83 posts
Joined: December 08, 2005
KitMaker: 91 posts
AeroScale: 83 posts
Posted: Friday, February 03, 2012 - 07:38 AM UTC
Thank you guys. Sean I'm doing my best and fastest. At least I hope to qualify with my Huckebeins.
mykroft
Ontario, Canada
Joined: November 14, 2009
KitMaker: 270 posts
AeroScale: 264 posts
Joined: November 14, 2009
KitMaker: 270 posts
AeroScale: 264 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 - 01:02 PM UTC
Naseby
Slovakia
Joined: October 15, 2010
KitMaker: 825 posts
AeroScale: 476 posts
Joined: October 15, 2010
KitMaker: 825 posts
AeroScale: 476 posts
Posted: Saturday, February 04, 2012 - 10:39 PM UTC
It was a great fun watching this campaign, unfortunately I will back out of it. Back when I signed up I was going to build a B-25 in a Vietnam style camo, but the chosen kit from Airfix is just too bad. I made little progress, used putty and file again again and again but the results arent anywhere I would like. The fitt is terrible and when I imagine rescribing the whole thing, as it has no pannel lines, I think Im done with it. Life is just too short to waste it on such poor kits which wil never look good enought. Here are some farewell pictures from today morning before the whole thing ended up in trash.
windysean
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: September 11, 2009
KitMaker: 1,917 posts
AeroScale: 563 posts
Joined: September 11, 2009
KitMaker: 1,917 posts
AeroScale: 563 posts
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 04:42 AM UTC
Aw, Naseby, that was a tragedy. Airfix making that kit at all was a tragedy. Get back on the horse that threw you I'll be good to see what you bring out next.
Cheers!
-Sean H.
Cheers!
-Sean H.
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 07:22 AM UTC
Thats a shame Naseby but after seeing the pics I can see why thats one akward looking kit
Sean less of the getting back on a horse after being thrown off please
Sean less of the getting back on a horse after being thrown off please
Posted: Sunday, February 05, 2012 - 08:04 AM UTC
Naseby thats such a shame, your not alone doing an ill fitting kit. Having done the Italeri B-26K I was keen to see how it was going to turn out. But at least I know to stick clear of the airfix B-25. How they can still have that piece of junk on general release I shall never know. If it is something you still want to do Italeri has a B-25 gunship out, and its cheap as chips.
At the minute my Rotodyne finally has the fuselage halves glued together. Although the halves fit beautifully on their own, once the cabins in they flatly refuse to go! So several days of cutting, sanding and swearing was needed to sort that out and it still wasn't perfect. I had to glue it bit by bit over a few nights, working my way from the front to back, with the whole thing being held together elastic bands.
A few gaps needed sorting out so since this pic was taken I've plastered on yet more filler. I've also masked out the fuselage windows now (all 10 of them) as it might be hard to do when the wings are on. It will also prevent sanding dust sticking to them.
I'm persisting but its looking increasingly unlikely that it will be finished by the deadline.
At the minute my Rotodyne finally has the fuselage halves glued together. Although the halves fit beautifully on their own, once the cabins in they flatly refuse to go! So several days of cutting, sanding and swearing was needed to sort that out and it still wasn't perfect. I had to glue it bit by bit over a few nights, working my way from the front to back, with the whole thing being held together elastic bands.
A few gaps needed sorting out so since this pic was taken I've plastered on yet more filler. I've also masked out the fuselage windows now (all 10 of them) as it might be hard to do when the wings are on. It will also prevent sanding dust sticking to them.
I'm persisting but its looking increasingly unlikely that it will be finished by the deadline.