Thanks for the kind words, Mike. It is, as they say, "a challenge."

BORING DETAILS

"She who must be obeyed" has plans for me today, but before embarking on them I did manage, last night and this morning, to cobble together (from Eduard Brass and otherwise) the dynamotor set that sits to the right front of the radio room floor. Here it is: "Don't look too closely!"



You will also notice the added strip to the right of the floor. That fits very nicely against the bulkhead and provides extra eye appeal.

Next up is the radio room chair and armor, which is a multi-step process.

Brian,
Now that's a really well done miniature dynamotor set. It really does look quite well detailed.
Joel

Nice job on that little sucker. Now that little black box next to it, that is one of the amplifiers for the electronic turbo system. Thus it does not apply to your airplane... don't hurt me now ! I will shut up and go back to my B-25...

It will be just our secret, and if anyone presses me on it, I will lie through my teeth and say that LL's overall flight performance was so great that the A/C was specially selected for a secret field test installation of the electronic turbo-supercharger control system. "I found out when researching my book, and I have the records * * * somewhere."

For those not "in the know," the B-17 originally had hydraulic controls for the G.E. turbo superchargers. However, at high altitude these controls could stick and freeze, making the turbo uncontrollable. That in turn meant loss of engine performance, or worse if the turbine wheel ran away and self destructed.

The problem was fixed with electronic controllers.

This design problem always reminded to me how difficult these high altitude ops were. The A/C and crews really were operating at the edge of the technology envelope for the time, and this was one of the weak spots.

To my knowledge, there isn't a restored B-17 flying today that has a fully functional turbo-supercharger system. It's not necessary at lower, "airshow" altitudes. I'm sure the same is so for the crew oxygen systems.

This 1943 G.E. training film explains the basics, with a huge dose of misleading propaganda about how the turbo system prevented German fighter attacks, due to altitude advantage. As if!

OT - Karl, since you like WWII A/C support vehicles, check this and this out.









PS, if you know where I can find a Paragon B-17 crew door set



to cast and return do let me know in a private message.

AH HA, so that is where that turbo prototype went!

I have found a few ground vehicles myself. MIG put out a Dodge ambulance and a company called RaiRo resins put out a Class 135 Crash Truck as well as a Chevy M6 Bomb Service Truck with the M5 Bomb Trailer. And there is that handy Revell ground equipment set. Do you have the Tamiya Infantry at Rest set that includes the Jeep?

Up to this point I have never really messed with ground vehicles, a/k/a "targets." But this build has spiked my interest in them. I'll research what you've posted here.

Later.

QUESTION FOR KARL - RR SEAT BASE?

I starting on the RR seat today. I seem to recall seeing (or imagining) a metal base plate on the floor through which the column supporting the seat extends. Is there one, or did the column just go straight through the plywood?

Yer askin' for it with the dio stuff! Myself I have amassed a plethora of 1/48 supplies for my '17 dio. Beware the RR vehicle kits, I have been told the bomb truck is inaccurate, confirmed by the producer.
I have also collected almost 80 1/48 figs , over the last 5 years, figs are important in a dio as you well know.I have also collected a number of vehicles ,and completed an Accurate Armor 1/48 Scammel Heavy Recovery tractor to begin the laborious task at hand.
You could ask MAtt Swan (Swanny) for the door set , if not pm me I have an extra one somewhere. There are also Cushman scooters from Plusmodel, Harleys and Indians from Propaganda , conversions from CMK , Verlinden stes , SOL sets , Fordson tractors and carts from Matador , fire extinguishers from PP Aeroparts, jacks and the (previously described here asa Putt-Putt) APU from SINIFER.
Figs from: Tarmac, PP Aero , Reheat , CMK ,Verlinden , Propaganda , Gasoline , Hauler.
To name just a few....
Here is my full (1/48) scale layout:
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu169/krow113/b-17/IMG_1406.jpg
Figs to date:
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu169/krow113/b-17/IMG_1301.jpg

Lemme know if the pics come up , I'll set the album to public for a week, I suggest you peruse it for the ton of info to be gleaned from the pics.
On page one there is a drawing od=f a Sperry ball turret. If Karl could look at that and give us some info on the application thereof, that would be cool. A few pages into the album you will see my ball turret work.

What have you heard that is inaccurate about the Bomb Service Truck? It looks fine to me. Mine does mention it has been updated with a correct hood and corrected grill. The only thing I see wrong is I didn't get two!

There was thread on hyperscale that pointed out the in accuracy. I didnt ask what as I bought the kit too.Check there if you wanna know. Personaly I dont care too much.

RR SEAT STARTED - FUSELAGE FATIGUE

Well, I started on the seat. Same methodology as with the pilots' seats, but a bit shorter. See below for comparison.



It may not be obvious, but I assure you that the radio room seat is shorter.

Once the subassembly is finished I will move on to the starboard bulkhead, installing electrical cabling fore and aft, and piping and dials for the two oxygen stations that would have served the two seats there. I also plan to fix a U-shaped bracket to the floor that will serve as a stand for the radio room hatch, which is going to be painted and laid up against the starboard bulkhead.

From there I will do the port bulkhead. Both of these actually have quite a bit of Edward brass so it should look busy enough.

After that I will finish the rear bulkhead and glue that to the floor, and then carefully fit the floor in. There will be a challenge making sure that it lines up properly, since the floor does have a bit of a warp to it.

Finally, I will be installing overhead control cables in the roof and then moving to the ball turret and waist area.

My North Carolina friend is after me to do the ball turret open. At this point I have no clue how I will put the interior of the turret together. As Scarlet would say, I can't think about that right now… I'll go crazy if I do.

I am suffering from some fuselage fatigue at this point in the build. Good heavens will this thing ever get done?

If it isn't obvious, you have to be really crazed to do this or obsessed with the B-17. I suppose I am a bit of both. What I do know is that this is the time in my life to try this. It can't be put off any longer and I finally have sufficient skills to give it a shot.

Still, so many kits, so little time.

Oh yeah, you were wondering about the seat mount, yes there is a metal plate on the floor that the seat post goes through.

Thanks. I saw one on the floor photo you posted and will go from there.

From the seat pictured there, it is clear that there were some seats that had four legs, but I greatly prefer the blueprints you posted with the single post and armor plate. That's what I'm doing.

For some reason, they went to the same seat as what they used for the navigator in the late F's and early G's. Then they went back to the metal bucket in later G's. No idea why. The bucket is correct for most F models including yours. They did eliminate the armor.

The detail on the seat drawing is outstanding, but mine may be a bit simplified.

Well, for this build I'm going to keep the armor. I had the privilege of interviewing MOH winner Forrest Vosler for Half A Wing and I will always remember his saying that, after he got wounded the first time, he left his gun and went to the seat "to hide behind the armor," until he decided "This is stupid," went back to his gun. I'm pretty sure that LL had the armor too because of the time involved, Fall of '43, and the fact that "Jersey Bounce Jr." and LL were built pretty close together in time.

You are absolutely correct, the F bucket had the armor. When they brought the bucket back in the late G, it was without the armor. Yours looks great.

Brian,
Between you and Karl, we're being treated to a history lesson of the time line of the B-17 F & G's. Really it's quite extraordinary the number of changes between variants and from one run to the next.

Your build has long ago morphed from just a detailed B-17F build, into a replica worthy of a display in a aircraft museum. Hopefully one that I can actually visit.

Joel

I hardly know what to say Joel, other than that Karl possesses B-17 technical documentation and info superior to anything I have seen, published or otherwise.

In public there is the late Roger Freeman's The B-17 Flying Fortress Story: Design-Production-History



which lists many changes from one production block and lot to another, and between the three manufacturers, but it has nothing like Karl's level of detail.

I'm going to resume work on the RR chair shortly, but thought I would share the following pics from the fantastic 303BG.com site that show some ground vehicles discussed here in use.



Note it's the small fuel truck. Must be a late 1945 shot since the PFF ship doesn't even have a top turret!



The ambulance, of course, and



303BG/427BS lead ship "Vicious Virgin" with a [to me at least] unknown type of tracked vehicle right under # 2 engine.

That is a Cletrac, used as a tow vehicle at most WW II bomber bases. Also handy to have around as it had a generator to operate electric equipment and a compressor which was good for tires and those big inflatable bags they used for raising an airplane off its belly. It was also adapted to other uses as the photo of one being used to hoist engines shows. The Monogram B-24 came with a simplified version and now Mike West of Lone Star Models is making one up in resin. A few of them still exist and appear at military vehicle shows. The Air Force Museum in Dayton has one as well. The standard tug wasn't big enough to pull a bomber, but these babies did the job just fine.

I have learned a huge amount about ground support equipment in this blog and appreciate the info. Will come in helpful later, during the "diorama phase."

Have the armor plate installed on the seat back and will (I think) get the yellow cushions on tonight. It WILL be a milestone for me when this seat goes into the floor!

QUICK COMPARISON OF RR AND PILOT SEAT

I'm happy with how it came out.



Next, seatbelts, then the pedestal mount for the seat, and touch up, weathering and installation in floor.

Excellent work, you should have that radio room knocked out in no time ; )

Well, probably not.

One quickie: on the stbd bulkhead I will run electrical wiring that will "join up" with some of the oxygen regulator instruments -- the two stations near the seats. This will start forward and run aft. Does it go all the way to the rear bulkhead or stop at the second oxygen station? [if you know!]

Brian,
Nicely done scratch building of both seats.
Joel