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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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1/48 Academy B-25B Mitchell
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, January 16, 2016 - 08:35 PM UTC
Todd,
For a basically wind down, relaxing OOB, this is turning into anything but. But it's still a great build of an excellent kit, and I'm actually enjoying the research aspect more then usual.

The twin tail .50 MGs, is another issue, so I went looking everywhere I could find info and pictures. And I found quite a few pictures. From what I've been able to determine, the rear twins were left on during the trip over. Also the twin.50s were left in the upper turret. The tarp covering the turret is definitely a must do.



So that's how I'm going to display my Mitchell. Whether or not they're real or phony, makes little difference to how they're molded. As Mike said, they look more like 1/48 scale broomsticks then gun barrels.

Another interesting aspect of the research is that these were new B-25Bs, so that there should have been little to no weathering, paint wear, etc. yet in the above picture, there is clearly a lot of wear and tear on the tops of the wings, fuselage, and tail surfaces.

How about posting some pictures of your 15 year mod build. That just might be the push you need to get your Mojo flowing again.

Joel


Redhand
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Posted: Friday, January 22, 2016 - 07:04 PM UTC
Nice picture Joel. Everything I have ever read about the Doolittle Raid regarding the tail guns is that they were fakes. If we look at this picture you have, I don't see any way that the guns could be moved in the Plexiglas.

The scratches and weathering on the upper wing and fuselage behind the turret are pretty interesting. I guess they had a lot of people clambering around there while underway. Also of note is the color difference between the flight surfaces and the metal wings.

One thing you might want to check is whether the lower surfaces of the vertical stabilizers below the horizontal stabilizers on the inner sides were painted neutral gray rather than OD. To my surprise, I recently came across some information indicating that B-24's were painted like this at the factory.

I should have a modest post up soon about progress redoing the B-17 pilot seats (again).
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, January 22, 2016 - 10:02 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Nice picture Joel. Everything I have ever read about the Doolittle Raid regarding the tail guns is that they were fakes. If we look at this picture you have, I don't see any way that the guns could be moved in the Plexiglas.

The scratches and weathering on the upper wing and fuselage behind the turret are pretty interesting. I guess they had a lot of people clambering around there while underway. Also of note is the color difference between the flight surfaces and the metal wings.

One thing you might want to check is whether the lower surfaces of the vertical stabilizers below the horizontal stabilizers on the inner sides were painted neutral gray rather than OD. To my surprise, I recently came across some information indicating that B-24's were painted like this at the factory.

I should have a modest post up soon about progress redoing the B-17 pilot seats (again).


Brian,
I read the same thing about the tail twin MGs. I'm going to just use the kit ones as that's about all there is to them.

I also noticed the much lighter shade of OD for the flying surfaces. Strange as these were new aircraft and as far as I know, and all those surfaces are metal not fabric. Then to confuse the issue even more, the trim tabs are a darker shade. I'm going to try and use this picture as a guide, but go easy on the paint scratches. I would guess that a closer inspection would also show some discoloration of the OD paint as it did fade quickly.

As far as how the inner surfaces of the vertical stabs were painted, I'll try to find some info and or pictures.

Looking forward to you next update. You gotta stop redoing those seats, or you'll never get to the finish line. This is the 3rd or 4th time you've gone back to redo them.

Joel
Redhand
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Posted: Friday, January 22, 2016 - 10:20 PM UTC

Quoted Text



You gotta stop redoing those seats, or you'll never get to the finish line. This is the 3rd or 4th time you've gone back to redo them.

Joel


I know. It did have to be re-done (this time) when I opened the tunnel.
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, January 22, 2016 - 10:37 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text



You gotta stop redoing those seats, or you'll never get to the finish line. This is the 3rd or 4th time you've gone back to redo them.

Joel


I know. It did have to be re-done (this time) when I opened the tunnel.


Brian,
So you damaged the seats
Joel
Redhand
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Posted: Friday, January 22, 2016 - 11:02 PM UTC
No, but since I had the "garage doors" in the tunnel/cockpit floor opened, that entire subassembly had to be pulled out, and rebuilt, at least so far as the seat legs are concerned. Also, I am replicating the seatbacks so that they are different, and conform with a drawing that Karl provided me. When you'll see them you'll see why.

Incidentally, the reason why the trim tabs are a different color on the B-25 is because they are metal.
Joel_W
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Posted: Friday, January 22, 2016 - 11:54 PM UTC
Brian,
Spent the last hour or so researching the issue of just what the flying surfaces were made of. Everything I read said that all flying surfaces during the war were constructed out of fabric regardless of the fact that the rest of the air frame was metal. the reasons cited were;

lighter in weight.
Thus easier to balance them in flight, lessening buffering
Easier and quicker to repair when damaged.

The same paint was used to paint the entire aircraft, just that it faded at a different rate. Newer flying surfaces appear as darker rather then lighter.









Redhand
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Posted: Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 01:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Brian,
Spent the last hour or so researching the issue of just what the flying surfaces were made of. Everything I read said that all flying surfaces during the war were constructed out of fabric regardless of the fact that the rest of the air frame was metal.


I don't doubt many A/C control surfaces were made of fabric. But I always understood (verified by museum trips?) that the trim tabs inside the control surfaces were aluminum. However, I just found this e-bay item stating that, due to shortage of aluminum, this AT-6 trim tab was made of wood. When Karl comes on line we should have a more definitive opinion.
GazzaS
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Posted: Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 01:20 AM UTC
Nice, useful pictures, Joel. Gonna use those oil stain marks?
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 02:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Brian,
Spent the last hour or so researching the issue of just what the flying surfaces were made of. Everything I read said that all flying surfaces during the war were constructed out of fabric regardless of the fact that the rest of the air frame was metal.


I don't doubt many A/C control surfaces were made of fabric. But I always understood (verified by museum trips?) that the trim tabs inside the control surfaces were aluminum. However, I just found this e-bay item stating that, due to shortage of aluminum, this AT-6 trim tab was made of wood. When Karl comes on line we should have a more definitive opinion.


Brian,
I never would have thought of wood. I also noticed that the leading edges of the Ailerons are darker but a jagged line. I'm thinking it's most likely how the fabric was stretched and doped to the frame.

I'm sure that Karl has all the answers.
Joel
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 02:38 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Nice, useful pictures, Joel. Gonna use those oil stain marks?


Gary,
Not planning on it. As the Doolittle raiders most likely wouldn't be leaking oil on take off, and I'm doing my build as it would have appeared aboard the Hornet.

And this started out as a wind down, relaxing build from the PV-1. Go figure

Joel
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Posted: Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 03:56 AM UTC
Yep, the aileron, as well as the elevators and rudders were fabric covered with metal trim tabs. This is from the B-25 SRM:



And here is the IPC ref showing the forward edge was covered in metal. The fabric was then on top of that, giving the look Joel was talking about.

KPHB17FE
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Posted: Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 04:05 AM UTC
By the way, I have read that those aircraft were not actually brand new, but had been used in some of the war games. And that is why the paint looked so crappy on some of them. The war games had aircraft marked with a water based paint that stained the OD. Not 100% on that, but seem to have read that someplace. Back to the fabric for a minute, doped fabric takes paint different from metal. I don't mean it is a different paint, it just has a different appearance. Modern paints you don't see it as much.
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 04:09 AM UTC
Karle,
Thanks so much for clearing up my concerns. You certainly are a walking knowledge base of information.
Joel
GazzaS
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Posted: Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 06:57 AM UTC
Yes Joel,
I don't think that we know what a relaxing build is any more. We pick a particular subject and even if we don't get into afternarket, we can't resist on improving the original kits. Our standards change, and because we have heightened standards, our builds are now divided more by cost than by effort.

Gary
Joel_W
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Posted: Saturday, January 23, 2016 - 07:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Yes Joel,
I don't think that we know what a relaxing build is any more. We pick a particular subject and even if we don't get into afternarket, we can't resist on improving the original kits. Our standards change, and because we have heightened standards, our builds are now divided more by cost than by effort.

Gary



Gary,
You've hit the nail right on the head.
Joel
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Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 09:04 AM UTC
Excellent work, Joel - coming along nicely!

I know you mainly build out of the box, but if you're feeling adventurous, you can add Resin2detail's R-2600 under one of the cowlings! Will be released in the coming week or so ...



Redhand
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Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 09:30 AM UTC
Joel: I look forward to your next post in this "anything but OOB build."

I will be doing a new post pretty soon myself for the cockpit of the B-17.

By the way, that 2013 MIG-21 Romanian build of Chuck's flashed on the site for a moment as if it were a new build, and then disappeared. Did he ever finish it?

Best, Brian
GazzaS
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Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 10:51 AM UTC
How can you not want that engine! However, if you get them, you have to have a cowling open. Would be a shame to waste that kind of detail.
Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 10:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Excellent work, Joel - coming along nicely!

I know you mainly build out of the box, but if you're feeling adventurous, you can add Resin2detail's R-2600 under one of the cowlings! Will be released in the coming week or so ...





Brian,

OMG!! Now that's an incredible 1/48 scale R2600 engine. stuffing it inside one or both of the kit cowlings must be illegal. It certainly puts the kit engines to shame. Where would one be able to buy those magnificent engines

I used aftermarket resin engines for my PV-1 build, and honestly unless as Gary suggests, one cuts open the cowling, it's just not worth the time, effort, nor expense.



I did try cutting open one of the cowlings on my P-61 build with so so success.





Joel

Joel_W
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Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 11:09 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Joel: I look forward to your next post in this "anything but OOB build."

I will be doing a new post pretty soon myself for the cockpit of the B-17.

By the way, that 2013 MIG-21 Romanian build of Chuck's flashed on the site for a moment as if it were a new build, and then disappeared. Did he ever finish it?

Best, Brian


Brian,
I haven't posted a update in a while for a few reasons. 1st and foremost I'm at that major ugly duckling stage of putty, sand, putty, sand, etc. the fuselage, and both wings with engine nacelles installed. Not exactly the most exciting part of any build to photograph and post about. I'm close to getting ready to mask and install all that fuselage glass, and then post another update.

The other reason is that for the 1st time in my "Adult Modeling Life", I've started another kit, and plan on alternating stages/steps so each build will take individually longer, but the combined time total is about the same as if I built them separately. As I stated that I've come out of my modeling closet concerning a very personal interest in building certain race cars, and cars from eras long past. That 1st most modest effort is the Ebbro 1/20 scale Lotus 49. My 2nd all time favorite F1 car. While I realize that most of you don't share my passion, I'll be posting some updates on the automakers site as I feel my way through the build.

the 3rd reason, and the other reason for modeling race cars, is that for years on end I've done literally nothing but seat at my workbench for the vast majority of time that I'm home, and honestly my Mojo of late seems to have been some what decreasing. So I'm also now spending less time actively modeling. I've found that the two options have helped me once again focus on my modeling both venues with a somewhat different perspective.

As for Chuck W.just disappearing,it's odd but I've been looking for and mentally asking the same question. I do look forward to his builds with his "girls", and his incredible detailing and modeling skills. So please Chuck if your out there how about a update, or at least just drop by and say hello to your Aeroscale friends.

Joel
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Posted: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 - 11:51 PM UTC

I did try cutting open one of the cowlings on my P-61 build with so so success.

Joel



Funny man! Your "so-so" looks great to me.:-)

I'm working on a Dauntless SBD-2...and I've had trouble finding good color pictures of the engine on dah net. I was following a picture of one modelers work and painted all of the spark plug cables copper, thinking they were fuel line, before I discovered what I think is wrong. Have since repainted them semi-glossy black, leaving a hint of copper here and there just because it looks "good". But yours look red??? Am I still wrong?

Can anyone point to a good, color source of WW2 Radial Engines? I don't super detail like you guys do, but I'd like to get the colors as close as possible.

Larry B
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 12:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text


I did try cutting open one of the cowlings on my P-61 build with so so success.

Joel



Funny man! Your "so-so" looks great to me.:-)

Larry,
Thanks for the compliment. The color of the wire is a redish brown, but you're right, it's a little too bright an and a little to red. The problem is that I can't paint the wire before installation as bending the wire just flakes the paint off, and painting those wires once installed is a true nightmare for me. So I compromised and left them as it.

If someone would actually make 1/48 scale ignition wires in the proper colors, I would be their best customer.

Joel

I'm working on a Dauntless SBD-2...and I've had trouble finding good color pictures of the engine on dah net. I was following a picture of one modelers work and painted all of the spark plug cables copper, thinking they were fuel line, before I discovered what I think is wrong. Have since repainted them semi-glossy black, leaving a hint of copper here and there just because it looks "good". But yours look red??? Am I still wrong?

Can anyone point to a good, color source of WW2 Radial Engines? I don't super detail like you guys do, but I'd like to get the colors as close as possible.

Larry B
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 12:19 AM UTC
Joel,
I was doing the search the wrong "way". I kept doing a search for Dauntless SBD-2 engine photos, hoping to find a picture of one in the shop being worked one.

However, I just did a search for the engine and found a great color photo of the Wright R-1820. Looks like the spark plug cables are encased in aluminum tubing, perhaps to protect the wires from sea air. So...copper tubing may not have been "wrong" on some engines.

The model I'm doing is the Academy repackaging of the older Accurate Miniatures kit. The wiring harness is a delicate web that wouldn't hold up with the cowling off, but is going to look great when it's on. I'm hoping to finish it this month and submit it the Model of the Month contest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_R-1820

Larry B
Joel_W
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Posted: Thursday, February 04, 2016 - 03:27 AM UTC
Larry,
I have the same wiring harness with my B-25B as it's also a old Accurate Minature's kit.

I've got dozens of pictures of WW11 engines. The wiring harness is some what different in the vast majority of pictures. All are museum display engines, yet all are wired differently.

Joel





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