Air Campaigns
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Hosted by Frederick Boucher, Michael Satin
FW 190 Campaign. It will really be cool!
rv1963
New York, United States
Joined: December 07, 2004
KitMaker: 1,888 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Joined: December 07, 2004
KitMaker: 1,888 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 12:38 AM UTC
Thanks Jesper i will leave at least one of the engine panels removable so some of it can be seen.
AirLedge
Cork, Ireland
Joined: July 26, 2007
KitMaker: 292 posts
AeroScale: 265 posts
Joined: July 26, 2007
KitMaker: 292 posts
AeroScale: 265 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 04:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
since we are on topic of colours and I'm getting around to painting my jv44 dora.
The instructions from hobyboss call out 83/75 over 66!!!?!
Eh?
I've made a light blue /gray with 3:1 XF2 to XF23. and that looks ok.
Any ideas for what the top colours should be? I just don't trust the
colour call out from the kit.
I've also painted the wheel wells drak grey i.e. RLM 66 is alright?
Thanks JP
@ JP,
Regarding the wheel wells, they should definitely be RLM 02, a light gray with a hint of green. RLM 66 was used in cockpits.
JV 44 Doras had two camo schemes:
1) RLM 82 Bright Green, RLM 83 Dark Green (wings, tail wings, top of fuselage, mottling on fuselage sides), RLM 76 Light Blue (fuselage sides, rudder), RLM 23 Red with thin White stripes (undersurfaces). "Red 1" and "Red 3" of JV44 had this scheme.
2) Same as above except RLM 75 Gray-Violet instead of RLM 82 Bright Green. "Red 4" and "Red 13" of JV44 had this scheme.
Both versions had a black and yellow prop spinner.
What aircraft number are you doing?
Hope this helps,
@ Jesper,
I've used Gunze for my RLM colours, they seem spot on and spray really well, highly-recommended. Recently I've discovered that Pactra also do a range of RLM colours, so far I've only used the RLM 70 Black Green: sprayed well and also brush painted nicely.
I hope to post some progress pics of my JV44 Dora later today, may even get it primed tonight ...
Mike.
CaptainA
Indiana, United States
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 10:31 AM UTC
Some progress...
This is not yet completed. But it is getting close. The hood over the guns is just temporarily placed. I will probably open it up also.
Should the antennae wire be taught or loose on an open A8/R2?
This is not yet completed. But it is getting close. The hood over the guns is just temporarily placed. I will probably open it up also.
Should the antennae wire be taught or loose on an open A8/R2?
jaypee
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 07, 2008
KitMaker: 1,699 posts
AeroScale: 1,384 posts
Joined: February 07, 2008
KitMaker: 1,699 posts
AeroScale: 1,384 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 11:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
@ JP,
Regarding the wheel wells, they should definitely be RLM 02, a light gray with a hint of green. RLM 66 was used in cockpits.
JV 44 Doras had two camo schemes:
1) RLM 82 Bright Green, RLM 83 Dark Green (wings, tail wings, top of fuselage, mottling on fuselage sides), RLM 76 Light Blue (fuselage sides, rudder), RLM 23 Red with thin White stripes (undersurfaces). "Red 1" and "Red 3" of JV44 had this scheme.
2) Same as above except RLM 75 Gray-Violet instead of RLM 82 Bright Green. "Red 4" and "Red 13" of JV44 had this scheme.
Both versions had a black and yellow prop spinner.
What aircraft number are you doing?
Hope this helps,
Mike.
Thanks Mike it does indeed. The hobbyboss gives decals for white 1 ! I think they actually mean red 3, from the inscription "By order of the reichsbahn" or something like that. Also missing is the checkerboard in a red circle unit insignia. Seems Bit of a mess by hobbyboss in this respect. I've already given the undersurface a coat of red so I'm stuck with jv44 i like the colour anyway.
Perhaps there was a White 1 in JV44 at some point, anyone know? With that inscription and without the unit badge? where did hobbyboss get this from surely they should do some research?
Solution: I may attempt to mask the unit insignia, i'll try it on a scrap first. I've got a red 3 from a hasegawa tiger tank that will fit more or less.
See how a little knowledge becomes a pain in the arse.
rv1963
New York, United States
Joined: December 07, 2004
KitMaker: 1,888 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Joined: December 07, 2004
KitMaker: 1,888 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 11:53 AM UTC
Good work Carl i really like your weathering.
Yeti123
Michigan, United States
Joined: February 11, 2008
KitMaker: 311 posts
AeroScale: 278 posts
Joined: February 11, 2008
KitMaker: 311 posts
AeroScale: 278 posts
Posted: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 04:20 PM UTC
Looks great Carl. I love those Eduard kits. Can't wait to see it finished
Taylor
Taylor
Posted: Tuesday, February 24, 2009 - 10:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
@ Jesper,
I've used Gunze for my RLM colours, they seem spot on and spray really well, highly-recommended. Recently I've discovered that Pactra also do a range of RLM colours, so far I've only used the RLM 70 Black Green: sprayed well and also brush painted nicely.
Mike.
Thanks for the tip. I will try to track down some of these paints. I have never used them before, but I think my LHS has them in stock. Maybe that is a good solution worth trying.
Carl, that butcher bird looks great. I have a ton of these kits in my stash and cannot wait to get started on them.
atoplu
Ontario, Canada
Joined: August 17, 2003
KitMaker: 753 posts
AeroScale: 174 posts
Joined: August 17, 2003
KitMaker: 753 posts
AeroScale: 174 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 09:55 AM UTC
Hi ,
This is my entry for campaign. Tamiya Fw-190A8/R2 in 48th scale.Some progress pictures.
This is my entry for campaign. Tamiya Fw-190A8/R2 in 48th scale.Some progress pictures.
jaypee
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 07, 2008
KitMaker: 1,699 posts
AeroScale: 1,384 posts
Joined: February 07, 2008
KitMaker: 1,699 posts
AeroScale: 1,384 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 10:00 AM UTC
First go with my dual action airbrush, first go on plastic anyway.
Masked up the underbelly, and sprayed XF2 all over it
And the moment of truth
Phew! that worked out OK. Not perfect but these stripe where field applied so that is acceptable. Some touch up required but I'm relieved at how that turned out. Looking forward to mottling next. Never done anything like that before.
Masked up the underbelly, and sprayed XF2 all over it
And the moment of truth
Phew! that worked out OK. Not perfect but these stripe where field applied so that is acceptable. Some touch up required but I'm relieved at how that turned out. Looking forward to mottling next. Never done anything like that before.
rv1963
New York, United States
Joined: December 07, 2004
KitMaker: 1,888 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Joined: December 07, 2004
KitMaker: 1,888 posts
AeroScale: 39 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:59 AM UTC
I like the stripes JP they look good.
thegirl
Alberta, Canada
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 6,743 posts
AeroScale: 6,151 posts
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 6,743 posts
AeroScale: 6,151 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 02:12 PM UTC
Carl , she looks fantastic so far .
Jaypee , you have done a super job on the stripes ! I love them !
Jaypee , you have done a super job on the stripes ! I love them !
jaypee
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 07, 2008
KitMaker: 1,699 posts
AeroScale: 1,384 posts
Joined: February 07, 2008
KitMaker: 1,699 posts
AeroScale: 1,384 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 08:20 PM UTC
Thanks I was quite chuffed when the masking came off. Your campaign though Terri is going to cost me a fortune in Tamiya tape.
LongKnife
Jönköping, Sweden
Joined: April 25, 2006
KitMaker: 831 posts
AeroScale: 688 posts
Joined: April 25, 2006
KitMaker: 831 posts
AeroScale: 688 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 - 11:39 PM UTC
Carl: Nice one you've got there. I like the open hatches, and you've got the fiddly stuff nice.
JP: Nice lines. Just don't do like me with the mottling. I tried to make blotches, but that didn't work out well. They got too hard, too dark and too "designed". I guess I'll try angled lines next time, a little like preshading, and do them before the main camo. That way it's possible to hide mistakes by drawing the main camo a bit lower where necessary.
Tony
JP: Nice lines. Just don't do like me with the mottling. I tried to make blotches, but that didn't work out well. They got too hard, too dark and too "designed". I guess I'll try angled lines next time, a little like preshading, and do them before the main camo. That way it's possible to hide mistakes by drawing the main camo a bit lower where necessary.
Tony
AirLedge
Cork, Ireland
Joined: July 26, 2007
KitMaker: 292 posts
AeroScale: 265 posts
Joined: July 26, 2007
KitMaker: 292 posts
AeroScale: 265 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 01:50 AM UTC
Hi all,
Really like your builds so far! Nice stripes JP!
Here's where I'm at.
Academy Fw 190 D-9 of JV44 1/72. A pretty decent kit but I couldn't resist getting the Eduard Zoom set. The Academy landing gear is pretty plain so I used some metal foil and stretched sprue to add some detail:
Then sprayed the interior Pactra RLM 66, followed by light dry-brushing:
Applied a wash, the PE seatbelts, painted tan, and the instrument panel got details painted and then the foil dials were attached to the back of the panel. Only with the enlarged photo can I see it's slightly off, but normally it looks good. This was my first time working with PE and I absolutely love the stuff!
Main construction is complete. The kit fits together nicely so only a little Mr. Surfacer was needed. I scratch-built new wing guns from streyched cotton buds! It works really well and leaves a nice hollow barrel. Also cut off the rudder and left it at a slight angle.
Another problem with the kit is that the instrument panel sits way too far forward, so I brought it closer to the seat to be visible:
It got primed last night and was left to dry in a handy plastic container to keep the dust off. I always prine with a Humbrol enamel light gray. I'll do the main painting in acrylics:
Some minor filling/sanding needed. Those wing-mounted guns turned out great in the end:
That's all for now. Will hopefully get those candy stripes done by the weekend, next stage; pre-shading ...
Thanks,
Mike.
Really like your builds so far! Nice stripes JP!
Here's where I'm at.
Academy Fw 190 D-9 of JV44 1/72. A pretty decent kit but I couldn't resist getting the Eduard Zoom set. The Academy landing gear is pretty plain so I used some metal foil and stretched sprue to add some detail:
Then sprayed the interior Pactra RLM 66, followed by light dry-brushing:
Applied a wash, the PE seatbelts, painted tan, and the instrument panel got details painted and then the foil dials were attached to the back of the panel. Only with the enlarged photo can I see it's slightly off, but normally it looks good. This was my first time working with PE and I absolutely love the stuff!
Main construction is complete. The kit fits together nicely so only a little Mr. Surfacer was needed. I scratch-built new wing guns from streyched cotton buds! It works really well and leaves a nice hollow barrel. Also cut off the rudder and left it at a slight angle.
Another problem with the kit is that the instrument panel sits way too far forward, so I brought it closer to the seat to be visible:
It got primed last night and was left to dry in a handy plastic container to keep the dust off. I always prine with a Humbrol enamel light gray. I'll do the main painting in acrylics:
Some minor filling/sanding needed. Those wing-mounted guns turned out great in the end:
That's all for now. Will hopefully get those candy stripes done by the weekend, next stage; pre-shading ...
Thanks,
Mike.
Posted: Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 04:05 AM UTC
Really nice stripes, JP. Is that a popsicle?
Great Dora so far, Mike. Great details! My cockpits does not look as good as yours and mine are 1/48, not 1/72. Nice trick with the hollow guns. I normally drill out mine with a really really thin drill.
My JG2 FW 190A3 is finished. I am really satisfied with this one although there are still a few stupid mistakes. The colours are slightly of, but I can live with that.
There is also slight silvering on one of the wing crosses, but this I can also live with.
I have difficulty living with the glue on the head back rest for the pilot. Especially since it is on the inside of the clear part! I do not understand how I could mess that up Anyway, I see no easy way to fix that now.
Comments welcome
Great Dora so far, Mike. Great details! My cockpits does not look as good as yours and mine are 1/48, not 1/72. Nice trick with the hollow guns. I normally drill out mine with a really really thin drill.
My JG2 FW 190A3 is finished. I am really satisfied with this one although there are still a few stupid mistakes. The colours are slightly of, but I can live with that.
There is also slight silvering on one of the wing crosses, but this I can also live with.
I have difficulty living with the glue on the head back rest for the pilot. Especially since it is on the inside of the clear part! I do not understand how I could mess that up Anyway, I see no easy way to fix that now.
Comments welcome
jaypee
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: February 07, 2008
KitMaker: 1,699 posts
AeroScale: 1,384 posts
Joined: February 07, 2008
KitMaker: 1,699 posts
AeroScale: 1,384 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 05:06 AM UTC
Mike. thats a great cockpit, there isn't one in the hobbyboss kit at all, nad the wheel wells are
nicer on the academy too. Which number are you doing? hope not red 3, it would be nice to get
a full set of jv44 doras.
we are our own worst critics but some nice touches there jesper, the red tabs on the control surfaces.
The eagle heads are really striking, adds to the aggressive stance.
Need to get me a big old butcher bird and a jug at some point.
nicer on the academy too. Which number are you doing? hope not red 3, it would be nice to get
a full set of jv44 doras.
we are our own worst critics but some nice touches there jesper, the red tabs on the control surfaces.
The eagle heads are really striking, adds to the aggressive stance.
Need to get me a big old butcher bird and a jug at some point.
atoplu
Ontario, Canada
Joined: August 17, 2003
KitMaker: 753 posts
AeroScale: 174 posts
Joined: August 17, 2003
KitMaker: 753 posts
AeroScale: 174 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 09:04 AM UTC
AirLedge
Cork, Ireland
Joined: July 26, 2007
KitMaker: 292 posts
AeroScale: 265 posts
Joined: July 26, 2007
KitMaker: 292 posts
AeroScale: 265 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 11:31 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Mike. thats a great cockpit, there isn't one in the hobbyboss kit at all, nad the wheel wells are
nicer on the academy too. Which number are you doing? hope not red 3, it would be nice to get
a full set of jv44 doras.
No worries JP, I'm doing Red 1, flown by Lt. Heinz Sachsenberg:
I'm sure our birds ill make a nice pair
Yeti123
Michigan, United States
Joined: February 11, 2008
KitMaker: 311 posts
AeroScale: 278 posts
Joined: February 11, 2008
KitMaker: 311 posts
AeroScale: 278 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 26, 2009 - 03:48 PM UTC
I got a chance to take a few pictures. The MDC upgrades fit great and the Eduard set makes a great looking cockpit.
Taylor
Taylor
cinzano
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 13, 2009
KitMaker: 419 posts
AeroScale: 378 posts
Joined: January 13, 2009
KitMaker: 419 posts
AeroScale: 378 posts
Posted: Friday, February 27, 2009 - 02:55 PM UTC
Man,
Those birds are really coming together nicely. I especially like seeing the progress on that D9. I have a Dragon Dora that is coming up fast in the build rotation (possibly for the 'stripes campaign) and its nice to see how someone else tackles it. I think I'll invest in some detail sets for the engine compartment after seeing how well the plumbing looked from the wheel wells.
Anyway...
Closing in on finishing my Wuerger. Applied decals and am getting ready for another coat of Future, then tomorrow I plan to play with the new Pro Modeller washes that just arrived in the mail yesterday.
Someone early in this thread encouraged us to push the envelope with this campaign. I realize that for some the "envelope" is much bigger and harder to push than for others, however, for my modest skills, I'm wasting no effort to take chances and try new things. The canopy is turning out better than I feared. I rigged up a way to fashion the telescoping aerial harness through the canopy headrest and managed to get metal hand holds and canopy guides in without screwing it up!
Cheers,
Fred
Those birds are really coming together nicely. I especially like seeing the progress on that D9. I have a Dragon Dora that is coming up fast in the build rotation (possibly for the 'stripes campaign) and its nice to see how someone else tackles it. I think I'll invest in some detail sets for the engine compartment after seeing how well the plumbing looked from the wheel wells.
Anyway...
Closing in on finishing my Wuerger. Applied decals and am getting ready for another coat of Future, then tomorrow I plan to play with the new Pro Modeller washes that just arrived in the mail yesterday.
Someone early in this thread encouraged us to push the envelope with this campaign. I realize that for some the "envelope" is much bigger and harder to push than for others, however, for my modest skills, I'm wasting no effort to take chances and try new things. The canopy is turning out better than I feared. I rigged up a way to fashion the telescoping aerial harness through the canopy headrest and managed to get metal hand holds and canopy guides in without screwing it up!
Cheers,
Fred
cinzano
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 13, 2009
KitMaker: 419 posts
AeroScale: 378 posts
Joined: January 13, 2009
KitMaker: 419 posts
AeroScale: 378 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 06:26 AM UTC
Wooohooo!
Red 19 is finished. Warts and all, I submit my A8 to the campaign. I made too many mistakes to mention but I learned a lot too. Net result I had a lot of fun with this build. So much in fact that I think I have enough time to submit another Wuerger before the campaign deadline this Summer.
Anyway... Feel free to critique.
Cheers,
Fred
Red 19 is finished. Warts and all, I submit my A8 to the campaign. I made too many mistakes to mention but I learned a lot too. Net result I had a lot of fun with this build. So much in fact that I think I have enough time to submit another Wuerger before the campaign deadline this Summer.
Anyway... Feel free to critique.
Cheers,
Fred
CaptainA
Indiana, United States
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Joined: May 14, 2007
KitMaker: 3,117 posts
AeroScale: 2,270 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 01, 2009 - 07:30 AM UTC
It really looks good. The only thing I would point out is that the antennae wire is a little bit to big. Having said that, mine doesn't even have one, yet.
Posted: Monday, March 02, 2009 - 08:05 AM UTC
somehow i managed to start building a kit for this campaign before i had even heard it was happening!
basically i've had an italeri FW190-D9 kit for a while, but it would'nt quite fit in my stash so i ended up putting it on my spares box. then moving it on top of my spare decal container when i needed something from the spares box. then putting it on top of my paints when i needed to look for spare decals.....
so the solution is build the darn thing just to stop having to move it around all the time!
which i did on the 28th of february, then on the 1st of march i realised this campaign was happening, so i can combine tidying my stash with joining this one-
everyones a winner!
the offending box!
the dashboard drilled out, and about to have a plasticard backing put on, making painting in dials really easy!
finished dash plus johnny pilot, who hides the fact the cockpit isn't the best detailed in this campaign
wing camo and fuselage mottle nearly done, just a bit of touching up, then i can think about decals.
of course this being me, i decided it would be nice to have a earlier radial engined focke wulf to sit next to my dora-9, so two days ago i bought this-
its most likely going to be my second entry into this one.
phew! after this big post i'm off for a cup of tea (or something stronger )
basically i've had an italeri FW190-D9 kit for a while, but it would'nt quite fit in my stash so i ended up putting it on my spares box. then moving it on top of my spare decal container when i needed something from the spares box. then putting it on top of my paints when i needed to look for spare decals.....
so the solution is build the darn thing just to stop having to move it around all the time!
which i did on the 28th of february, then on the 1st of march i realised this campaign was happening, so i can combine tidying my stash with joining this one-
everyones a winner!
the offending box!
the dashboard drilled out, and about to have a plasticard backing put on, making painting in dials really easy!
finished dash plus johnny pilot, who hides the fact the cockpit isn't the best detailed in this campaign
wing camo and fuselage mottle nearly done, just a bit of touching up, then i can think about decals.
of course this being me, i decided it would be nice to have a earlier radial engined focke wulf to sit next to my dora-9, so two days ago i bought this-
its most likely going to be my second entry into this one.
phew! after this big post i'm off for a cup of tea (or something stronger )
Emeritus
Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
AeroScale: 1,564 posts
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
AeroScale: 1,564 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 - 05:44 AM UTC
No progress from me this time, except reporting my frustration with Academy D9's clear parts. Unbelievable... Just great-looking parts, marred by idiotic placement of sprue connector on the windscreen and even more moronic prominent headrest mounts on the sides of the sliding canopy portions. On the freakin' clear side, man!
And the moronism doesn't end there. The honor of the rest belongs to me.
I ruined one windscreen when removing it from the sprue (well, not ruined, more like marred, but I couldn't have lived with that sprue connector scar). The other I got reasonably well removed. After sanding, polishing and two dippings in Future there's only a small mark left.
Removing the headrest mounts from the sliding part was very tedious and required utmost care to ensure I wouldn't cause unnecessary polishing work for myself. Anyway, I go the mounts removed quite well. But two Future dippings, it wasn't as good as I wanted, so I decided to strip the Future and polish it some more.
So, I went and grabbed some window cleaner and placed the part in a bath of it for a while. Big mistake. Cleaners containing denatured ethanol and clear parts do mix, with bad consequences for the parts. The canopy went whitish and developed some cracking.
I was briefly thinking about buying another Academy Dora to get another flat canopy, but I'd rather not spend another minute sanding off those horrible headrest mounts. Then it struck me: time to get some more aftermarket parts, and using the majority of them for another kit than it's designed for!
So I looked around a bit and CMK's cockpit set meant for Revell's 190 looked it might be just what's needed. The flat canopy goes to the Revell kits and the rest to the office of the Academy Dora.
Since the Academy canopy fits Revell's A8 like a glove, I suppose the bulged canopy in the CMK set will fit the Academy kit. The rest of the parts will do wonders for the cockpit of the Dora. If the cockpit tub will fit, that's just pleasant extra.
And the moronism doesn't end there. The honor of the rest belongs to me.
I ruined one windscreen when removing it from the sprue (well, not ruined, more like marred, but I couldn't have lived with that sprue connector scar). The other I got reasonably well removed. After sanding, polishing and two dippings in Future there's only a small mark left.
Removing the headrest mounts from the sliding part was very tedious and required utmost care to ensure I wouldn't cause unnecessary polishing work for myself. Anyway, I go the mounts removed quite well. But two Future dippings, it wasn't as good as I wanted, so I decided to strip the Future and polish it some more.
So, I went and grabbed some window cleaner and placed the part in a bath of it for a while. Big mistake. Cleaners containing denatured ethanol and clear parts do mix, with bad consequences for the parts. The canopy went whitish and developed some cracking.
I was briefly thinking about buying another Academy Dora to get another flat canopy, but I'd rather not spend another minute sanding off those horrible headrest mounts. Then it struck me: time to get some more aftermarket parts, and using the majority of them for another kit than it's designed for!
So I looked around a bit and CMK's cockpit set meant for Revell's 190 looked it might be just what's needed. The flat canopy goes to the Revell kits and the rest to the office of the Academy Dora.
Since the Academy canopy fits Revell's A8 like a glove, I suppose the bulged canopy in the CMK set will fit the Academy kit. The rest of the parts will do wonders for the cockpit of the Dora. If the cockpit tub will fit, that's just pleasant extra.
Posted: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 - 03:16 AM UTC
Really nice Wurger, Fred.
Except for the antenna wire that Carl pointed out, I see no problems at all. For the record my antenna wire was also a little too long, so I guess we are partners in crime on that.
Except for the antenna wire that Carl pointed out, I see no problems at all. For the record my antenna wire was also a little too long, so I guess we are partners in crime on that.