Hello everyone. My name is Rick Lawler, I am an armor guy and I've been totally enjoying (and learning) so much modeling from your threads.

Speaking now on the topic of Virgin Acylic Users. In the armor world, we have found that Tamiya acrylics are not "true" acrylics, though they share similar properites of acrylic (water soluable). I /we have been using the Tamiya Lacquer thinner with the Tamiya paints with fantastic results.

The spray is buttery smooth, great control, and none of the "premature drying" that was being discussed. I would strongly urge giving it some consideration on your excellent projecct.

BTW, you can order it through Tamiya USA
http://www.tamiyausa.com/product/item.php?product-id=87077

The yellow cap bottles.

As for cleaning the AB, Formula 409 kitchen cleaner works great, then rinse with tap water after.


Take care,
Rick
http://ricklawler.blogspot.com/

Hey there Rick.................a lurking "Tanker" I've got a few Spam cans in my stash also..........glad you enjoy the thread. I've learned a lot just being a part of it myself. I've done some things with this one that I've never done before and thats the name of the game......with modelers providing good constructive input.

Interesting about the Tamiya Laquer thinner. I for one am using the Tamiya acrylics for the most part but have been using alcolol to thin and clean. I don't have immediate access to laquer thinner. I did find that a really THIN and wet paint went on without the pre-mature drying. But then I'm a novice to acrylics......enamal guy here but I'm learning to like them.

409 for cleaning?..............well well well...........I got som-a-dat.

Gonna have to break out my Tiger I for build..... But for the life of me.....I've been eyeing that new 1/144 Fletcher Class Destroyer......

Keep Focus, Keep Focus...................and thank you Rick.

Regards
Steve

Steve, thanks for the welcome.

Keep in mind that alcohol has a very fast evaporation rate...so it's somewhat counter-productive, thus the need for extra thin mixes. Before I swiched to the lacquer thinner I began using Windex (yep, more household products) which seemed to work better than the alcohol - it's a bit self-cleaning so it helps keep the AB flowing.

Take care,

Rick

http://ricklawler.blogspot.com/

I've heard of adding a drop or two of windex to your mix to act as a wetting agent. I guess self cleaning is also an advantage.

Wouldn't too much actually prejudice the adhesion of the paint?

Cheers,

Hugh

Rick,

Took a peek at your blog..................you did an on-line build (at least paint) of that T-34 didn't you? If that was you.......WOW! That was one of the reasons I picked up MIG pigments. And if that wasn't you............still great work.

Windex? Adhesion issues? I may have to try another test shoot because my "mehod" has worked well "in close". When I move away for a wider area shot, I have been getting a grainy layer (like a dusting).........as maybe in early evaporation.

Yeppppp....a test shoot coming.

Don't want to "Flub".

Regards
Steve

OK, I was going to post a pic of my "test shoot" today...........but it was awful.

OK, I know a little about airbrushing but very little about acrylics, so I'm learning. Here is what i did today:

I tried another test shoot using a dab of Windex into the Alcohol and paint. (maybe a little more than a dab)

1. I did not prime, I used a flat Tamiya White as the prime with Windex. Now THAT layer went down well. Nice and smooth, like enamal. There were some air bubbles that got thrown but they self-smoothed like Future. It took a while to dry, not almost instantanious as in pure acrylics.

2. Layed down Tamiya tape as on my SE5 wing. (Did not pull up the white when i removed them).

3. Sprayed a light pre-shading layer.

4. The rest, being awful was i THINK all operator issues. Mostly too dark. Went to another section of wing and too WHITE. Was just off kilter. Too dark to see the pre-shading.

5. An ISSUE I think. This thing was not completely dry but it "washed" off like hot butter when sprayed with pure windex. Is that normal? Does a windex laced paint dry hard and not come up later?

6. I'll do another test shoot today and if halfway presentable will post. I'm glad i did a test shoot before going into the WALL-FLING mode.

7. I've got to lighten this OD without changing the color into a green pastel shade. I think I just need MUCH more thinner and much LESS paint.

I'm back to sinking rigging anchors.

Regards
Steve

Keep your head up, Steve.

I remind my wife NOT to clean the windows around my workspace with Windex, the mist will do crazy things to a finished paint job.

Thanks for letting us know what you're doing and how it's working out in such detail.

Mark

For acrylic paints I usually use a couple drops of anti-bacterial soap. It breaks the surface tension of the paint and helps is flow better.

Group Think here................Wadayathink?

Here is a photo of my Test Shoot.........with explaination below it. I'll tell you what i THINK I'm gonna do: Your Opinions are welcome.



That was my test shoots. Scraped off my earlier one today....it was outta hand.

1. Areas #1 and #3 were primed with Mr Surfacer/ Tamiya white layer/ taped/ NO pre-shading/ then coats of very thin Tamiya OD.

2. Area #2 is just a thin shoot of Thin OD.

3. Area #1 has a test of acrylic Wrinkles as well as other tests.

4. I like Area #1 except it's a bit blotchy. The tape was over the Mr surfacer so the tape shows up dark here. That will change.

5. I used Alcohol only with Mr Surfacer. Drop of Windex with all other shoots. OD had a hint of white in it.

6. I'm "Thinking" of putting the darker run of OD over the taped area as in Area #3. I like the colorless leading edge of Area #1.

Area #1 or #2 or #3??? These colors are a little bit darker and more intense than they really are.

Regards
Steve

Whoa Mark.............Windex will damage a paintjob that has been futured and flat-coated?

Regards
Steve

Steve,

Yes,............. I use a brush dedicated to brushing Future only. I clean it with Windex sprayed into a cup. Remember, Windex is Ammonia. It will take off acrylic paint and Future, which is also acrylic. Here's a few thread to read up on it:

http://cs.finescale.com/forums/844644/ShowPost.aspx

http://billabbott.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/remove-future-floor-wax-from-clear-model-parts-with-windex/



Here's few to strip enamels:

http://www.bonediggers.com/1-3/strip/strip.html


Hope that helps,

Mark

Hi Steve,

I like the effect that the tping on #1 gave you but...

I think the OD is too... Green... Too Bright.

You need a green that is tending more towards a brown and is a lot darker to get a fair representation of PC10. Having said that, the discussion on PC10 and it's various shades will probably go on until the entry of the Gods into Valhalla.

I find it hard to comment here as my chosen method of rib tape represenation is post rather than pre shading.

Cheers,

Hugh

For PC 10 I read some where , just can't recall off hand , but emperor green , or empire green . Found in the model train section at a LHS . Like hugh said can go on and on , on what shade this is . Try mixing OD with Field drab and to weather it light spray with faded OD . Not sure if this will be to your liking , bit it's worth a try .

Steve,

Thanks for the kind remarks about my T34, much appreciated. I wish I could help with the proper shades of green, but this is way out of my element.

Keep up your very fine work.

take care,

Rick

http://ricklawler.blogspot.com/

I was looking for comment on the application of of the color............not the color itself. As I said, I used US Army Olive Drab for the test shoot because i didn't want to waste my ONE jar of PC10. My airframe is going to be weathered and slightly faded and hopefully have interest for the eyes.

Let me trod very carefully on the PC10 issue. I have added a link to a very emotional PC10 discussion.

http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/camouflage-markings/38964-some-british-color-chips.html

But now after looking around I still don't know the answer to this question.........

"What is the camo color of the SE5a late in the war"?

Stephen has gone with "brown".........as a lot of the gurus seem to agree on.

Roden calls for "Matt Green"

Mister Kit PC10 is basically an "Olive Drab" (their PC12 is "brown")

TheVintageAviator's 1:1 build shows something between OD and Brown.

I'm a tad confused. I'm thinking about using the Mister Kit PC12...........which looks to me like a brown PC10 for my SE5a.

WOW.....this is gett'in more difficult than I anticipated. Maybe just a jug of Tamiya "Mud".

Regards
Steve

If "looks" and application are the question, then I prefer option 1. In my world, the higher the contrasts at this point (light leading edge, distinct rib shadows) is a good thing at this stage of the process.

For armor, our next step in the process would be the application of light color filters. ( acylic and/or artist's oils). The filters allow you the opportunity to fine tune the overall colors, but also the opportunity to make distinct certain features.

The filters will also knock some of the "edge" off the contrasts...so you want/need the higher opening extra "sparkle" or contrast so that the final finish still has some life.

I'm sure that this is nothing new to you, just an idea from my world that may, or may not translate to wings.

BTW - Tamiya paints are VERY difficult to use for the filters....Vallejo paints are the best.

take care,
Rick

Hey Rick,

Thanks for the thoughts. And Tank "Stuff" does translate into wings in my book (without all the mud maybe). The only "filtering" that I am able to use is with enamals.........have not gotten into acrylics until this project.

I kinda like area #1 also. My plan right now is to shoot it on in layers, allowing me to sit back and "contemplate" before more layers. Don't want to "Flub".

I "plan" on making it interesting to the eye even before doing any filters.

Again, Rick, that T-34 was inspirational more than you know. And don't feel as though your telling me something that I already "Know".....because I probably don't.

Anchors for rigging today, some putty for ">fuselage.........contemplation......

Regards
Steve

Hey Steve, Don't stress.

If I'm Honest, I am Lazy and I use straight Gunze H423 (RLM83 Dark Green) for my PC10.

Up until now, I have never tried to shade PC10. I have done so on later builds on my linnen and obviously on my F1.

The paint job on my SE5a is going to be yet another experiment.

The great thing about Acrylics is that they can be stripped back very easily.

Cheers,

Hugh

Consider using Testors Model Master Field Drab for a good base to PC 10. Replacement, repaired or repainted areas can go darker or lighter. Even PC 12 was used depending on what was in the unit supply huts. See the 1/48 Roden build notes thread for those variations. The percentages of iron oxide and lamp black from the manufacturer would be faily consistant. But elements like humidity, age, even the brush or liquid carries for thinning could effect the over all appearance.

When it comes to photos it would depend on lighting, orthochromatic or panchromatic films that were in use during the late war months.

The Lafayette Foundation has a fine piece of upper surface wing fabric from an American DH 4 that fits my description of PC 10 the British used in their general contract orders. Typically this is called Khaki. The Testors MM drab earth I described matches this very well.

Most replicas are very green. In the case of some AEF late war and all post war contract airframes this is reasonably accurate. They most likely ordered a green - dark blue/black OD olive colour to be applied. These are especially noted in the post war era where new machines were deliverd to the 94th & 95th Aero in Texas.

To be fair this image though informative does not represent the colour of PC 10 accurately.


Here is the Shuttleworth SE 5a after a recent restoration job.

Thanks Stephen,

My SE5a will be a brown. You can call it PC10-12-anything you want. I'll be using Mister Kit acrylics.........what they call PC12. Their PC10 is green. From what I've read, early PC10 might have been "greenish", but late PC10 was definately brown.

Finished setting my rigging anchors. Word of advice for SE5a builders.............you might want to consider tieing in some of your rigging lines before you close the fuselage and cockpit. 2 in fuselage might be issues. 2 in cockpit area are issues for me as they just pass through the cowling and anchor on wing attachment point.

Some fiddlies to attach to the fuselage today. Might get a coat of paint on the clear doped linen underside

Regards
Steve

Sorry... Can ya 'splain that a bit clearer Steve. Which rigging points are you refering to?

Need to know... I will be closing up the Fuselage soon!

Cheers,

Hugh

Hey Hugh,

Depends on how you attach rigging.

Fuselage has 4 openings for rudder contol lines. I "should" have put the lines inside before closing. I don't see this as a biggie issue because I "can" CA them into the hole. It would look more realistic without that CA though.

Cockpit is more problematic. 2 lines from the upper cabanes pass through the upper cowling and attach to the opposite lower wing attachment points on the "floor" of the cabin. I "should" have drilled and attached these before closure. These are the ones that are causing me "contemplation"..............as how to do it now.

Hope that helps some.

Regards
Steve

How goes the painting Steve ?

Hey Terri,

No painting yet. Little detail work first. Headrest, hand cranked magneto (outside). I may get a first coat of bottom wing "linen" on just to see how the pre-shading does. Got some last minute shopping to do also......

Regards
Steve